Since Denver Snuffer's last lecture the many people who hung on his every word are now gathering in 'communities'. Denver always insisted he did not want a following, but he has one. I guess since he has distanced himself from the creation of these communities, he can still claim (lawyer like claim) that he has no following, doesn't want one and will never start a church. It will just get done around him as he denies being the instigator.
They have a website http://www.zion.community/ where other his followers can meet up and create their groups. One of the things Denver claimed was that for a man to exercise the priesthood (he got from the LDS church) he must be 'sustained' by seven women--including his wife if he has one (at least that is how I interpreted it, but since some of these men won't have approval from their wives, that could get sticky) so they need to find enough women in their group to get that done, before they can officiate.
Another thing they need is another baptism. Apparently their LDS baptism wasn't good enough (even though their LDS priesthood if conferred before April 2014 IS valid) so they must be rebaptized--by a man whose been sustained by the prerequisite seven women.
Then they also need to meet together to have a proper sacrament, since the LDS one (which they got from the LDS church) is not good enough because you need to use wine or grape juice(for the hold outs who aren't ready to break with all LDS teachings). Oddly, here is a people who claim to believe everything Joseph revealed, but yet, water isn't good enough--even though Joseph received a revelation saying it was: D&C 27:2.
If you read some anger in my tone, you are perceptive. Personally, I do not begrudge anyone from leaving the faith, if they no longer believe and I would have no problem with these people leaving, but that's just it. They aren't leaving!
Only a couple have taken the step to resign or be honest with their church leaders. The rest, with Denver Snuffer's encouragement fully intend to remain in the LDS church, attend meetings (probably not all of them, but some) and then go to their clandestine 'community' meeting with other Snuffer followers where they can plan on how to gain more converts to the 'remnant' they are forming.
This is why I feel so strongly that they need to come out in the open and admit who they are and what they believe. If they are allowed to create a 'shadow church' within the LDS church we are in trouble.
Snuffer teaches his people the 'philosophies of snuffer...mingled with scripture'; an example is his belief that seven women need to sustain a man for him to use his priesthood. Where did he get this? He's interpreting Isaiah in a way he likes. He also told his followers that Zion, the New Jerusalem did not have to be in Independence, Mo. (even though the scriptures in D&C are crystal clear that it does need to be built in Independence Mo.) I suspect this is in anticipation of building his one temple-which will have to be built someplace other than Indep. Mo so he's got to receive 'revelation' that it can be someplace else.
He also encourages that after April 2014, if a person wants their son to receive priesthood in the LDS church, that they go ahead and do it--but then get together with the 'community' and redo the ordinance--properly...so it is 'binding'. What will this teach their children? Do they not see how dishonest this is?
THIS IS APOSTASY. There is no nice way to put it. These people cannot be allowed to hide within the LDS church and undermine the faith of others to bring more followers to Snuffer's cause.
I'm not sure what is going to be done, but I know something will need to happen. This cannot be allowed to play out as they hope it will.
Monday, September 22, 2014
Saturday, September 13, 2014
Denver Snuffer's last lecture
Denver Snuffer gave his last lecture in a series of 10 in Arizona this past week. In it he finally showed the world his intentions.
First off, he's not going to start a 'church' because he's said numerous times he would not start one, but thinking like a lawyer, he encouraged his followers to create 'communities of believers' where they can meet together, preach, baptize, take the sacrament....but it's not a church. Yea right.
He said that the Lord appeared to him, again, in May 2014 and explained that the LDS church lost it's authority when they excommunicated him. He told his followers that after that date, the church has no authority to give priesthood, perform ordinances, etc. He also told them to not bother to waste their time at LDS church meetings, not to pay tithing to the church etc. Of course, it goes without saying to not bother to attend the temple to do proxy work, since they have no efficacy anymore. He said that women should not have priesthood (at least for now I assume) but that it takes seven women to sustain one man's priesthood.
He said he had power to 'bless those that bless him and curse those that curse him'. Sounds like a prophet to me. From his quoting D&C 84: 27-28, Denver seems to believe he is the modern day John the Baptist, an 'Elias', preparing the way for the second coming of Christ. He clearly believes he is the Lord's prophet now and those in the LDS church are not prophets after his 'manifestation's' proclamation in May.
So, I have to say, I am glad Denver finally came out and said what many of us have known all along. Denver is deceived into believing he is the one, 'mighty and strong' that so many fundamentalist sects have been built around. He is openly hostile now to the church. He speaks out against many LDS teachings (word of wisdom) and now is not even veiling his attacks. Will his followers admit it?
Not if the LDS Freedom Forum http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/ is any indicator. This board is populated with diehard supporters of Denver Snuffer. Apparently they've been congregating and collecting there over the past few years and within the last 18 months, have become the majority of regular posters, including the owner and moderators. They have a private area they reserve for sharing their mutual love of DS away from the critical and prying eyes of the mainstream LDS posters.
Surprisingly, they are not happy about Denver's recent declarations. They did their best to downplay his statements and their implications after his Tuesday last lecture. They became very upset when any suggestion that Denver was starting a church was examined. They insisted that no discussion should take place until the Transcripts are available (of course when that happens, they will find some other excuse to shut down discussion.) and even questioned long time supporters who keep blogs such as Tim Malone; http://latterdaycommentary.com/2014/09/09/a-few-notes-from-the-mesa-lecture/ who took copious notes which he shared.
The fact is, now they must choose. For as long as I've been on LDSFF, his fans have had one foot in the LDS church and one foot in Denver's camp. If what Tim said is true (and I'm certain it is) then they will have to choose. They can no longer insist they can remain active, believing LDS and still follow Snuffer. He is making them have to choose and I think unconsciously, they don't like it. But, what did they expect? Snuffer is tired of being ignored and shunted aside.
He's always claimed all he wants to do is 'bring souls to Christ' but it is clear now, what he wants is to bring souls to Denver Snuffer. He will be their priesthood head, offer baptism in his non-church, ask for tithes to fulfill his vision for his non-church's efforts and teach his teachings.
First off, he's not going to start a 'church' because he's said numerous times he would not start one, but thinking like a lawyer, he encouraged his followers to create 'communities of believers' where they can meet together, preach, baptize, take the sacrament....but it's not a church. Yea right.
He said that the Lord appeared to him, again, in May 2014 and explained that the LDS church lost it's authority when they excommunicated him. He told his followers that after that date, the church has no authority to give priesthood, perform ordinances, etc. He also told them to not bother to waste their time at LDS church meetings, not to pay tithing to the church etc. Of course, it goes without saying to not bother to attend the temple to do proxy work, since they have no efficacy anymore. He said that women should not have priesthood (at least for now I assume) but that it takes seven women to sustain one man's priesthood.
He said he had power to 'bless those that bless him and curse those that curse him'. Sounds like a prophet to me. From his quoting D&C 84: 27-28, Denver seems to believe he is the modern day John the Baptist, an 'Elias', preparing the way for the second coming of Christ. He clearly believes he is the Lord's prophet now and those in the LDS church are not prophets after his 'manifestation's' proclamation in May.
So, I have to say, I am glad Denver finally came out and said what many of us have known all along. Denver is deceived into believing he is the one, 'mighty and strong' that so many fundamentalist sects have been built around. He is openly hostile now to the church. He speaks out against many LDS teachings (word of wisdom) and now is not even veiling his attacks. Will his followers admit it?
Not if the LDS Freedom Forum http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/ is any indicator. This board is populated with diehard supporters of Denver Snuffer. Apparently they've been congregating and collecting there over the past few years and within the last 18 months, have become the majority of regular posters, including the owner and moderators. They have a private area they reserve for sharing their mutual love of DS away from the critical and prying eyes of the mainstream LDS posters.
Surprisingly, they are not happy about Denver's recent declarations. They did their best to downplay his statements and their implications after his Tuesday last lecture. They became very upset when any suggestion that Denver was starting a church was examined. They insisted that no discussion should take place until the Transcripts are available (of course when that happens, they will find some other excuse to shut down discussion.) and even questioned long time supporters who keep blogs such as Tim Malone; http://latterdaycommentary.com/2014/09/09/a-few-notes-from-the-mesa-lecture/ who took copious notes which he shared.
The fact is, now they must choose. For as long as I've been on LDSFF, his fans have had one foot in the LDS church and one foot in Denver's camp. If what Tim said is true (and I'm certain it is) then they will have to choose. They can no longer insist they can remain active, believing LDS and still follow Snuffer. He is making them have to choose and I think unconsciously, they don't like it. But, what did they expect? Snuffer is tired of being ignored and shunted aside.
He's always claimed all he wants to do is 'bring souls to Christ' but it is clear now, what he wants is to bring souls to Denver Snuffer. He will be their priesthood head, offer baptism in his non-church, ask for tithes to fulfill his vision for his non-church's efforts and teach his teachings.
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